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Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 19:53:26 -0600 (MDT)
From: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net (fordtrucks-digest)
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: fordtrucks-digest V1 #1
Reply-To: fordtrucks ListService.net
Sender: owner-fordtrucks-digest ListService.net


fordtrucks-digest Tuesday, September 23 1997 Volume 01 : Number 001



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Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1960 And Older Trucks Digest
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In this issue:

Re: 1977 F-150 [pharrell bae.uga.edu (Graphics & Research Fabrication)]
Manifold ID ["deconblu" ]
76 Ammeter [Tom Hogan ]
Re: Need some help! [bbprice ]
RE: 351M Cam Timing [Sleddog ]
RE: bolt patterns on rear [Sleddog ]
Re: bolt patterns on rear ["deconblu" ]
Emissions device info ["Dave Resch"]
RE: bolt patterns on rear [Sleddog ]
re: need help! [Ken Payne ]
Lists are going down for 15-45 minutes for changeover. [Ken Payne
All lists back up. Please read [Ken Payne ]

=======================================================================

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Date: Tue, 23 Sep 97 15:18:48 EDT
From: pharrell bae.uga.edu (Graphics & Research Fabrication)
Subject: Re: 1977 F-150

So I can get lower first and second gears to go with the 1:1 third in my
stock 1980 C-6 and this will make my 3:1 rear gears give me more lowend?
I've been wanting to go to lower axle ratio but just couldn't see having to
change two sets of gears (front and rear) in my Bronco. My truck goes fairly
well in first but loses a bunch of power when it hits second. The final 1:1
drive in third is fine cause I can cruise at 65 mph all day. This sounds
like the best of both worlds.

Patrick
pharrell bae.uga.edu

- --- Begin Included Message ---

>>My '77 has a 400 which I had built for performance cause the 351M
>>didn't pull it's weight. It came with a C-6 which I also had beefed
>>up somewhat, but in high gear it sounds like it desperately needs
>>another gear. Does anyone out there know of a 4 speed C-6, or an
>>overdrive C-6, that will bolt in directly without having to change
>>my transfer case (not that I wouldn't)? Appreciate the help.

>Get the wide ratio gear set and put in taller rear gears. The wide
>ratio gives a better low gear with 1:1 third so you can run taller
>rear gears and get better top end but still get off the line. I have
>2.75's in my Pu with 460 and wide ratio from the factory in 78 and it
>works well with stock 29" tires.

>The wide ratio set is sold through SVO as E4OD replacements but works
>in the C-6 as well :-)
- ------------------------------------

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:33:18 -0700
From: "deconblu"
Subject: Manifold ID

I need some help IDing an intake manifold. A friend dropped it off at my
house because it's a Ford and I have Fords. It had some fittings on it I
wanted but It fits nothing of mine. It's a 4V EGR with casting numbers
D9TE-DA on the rear it has BG21. Looking at pictures in my manual it looks
like a 460. It also brought some friends, a chrome oil pan that has some
scrapage on the bottom and a set of exhaust manifolds that don't look to
good! Who wants them, how much will you give me? I'm in Rancho Cucamonga,
California for anyone close. TIA!
I also have a stock '94 Mustang radiator.

P.S. The Mustang I took the headers from was a '94. Sorry Joe my bad!



Deacon Blues
Visit my Homepage at http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://home1.gte.net/deconblu/
and http://www.ford-trucks.com//lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http://www.dragonfire.net/~site/tbirdknights/
or send me a fan or flame at deconblu gte.net not both. Never fan a flame!


+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 13:50:37 -0700
From: Tom Hogan
Subject: 76 Ammeter

I did it!. I finally got my charge indicator to work! It seems that
there is an error in the circuit design from Ford. The meter is of a
shunt type design. The current goes through the meter (no loop on the
back of the meter). Ford probably did not want to have to rout all of
the current through the meter on the dash (good idea, prevents shock
hazard, electrical fires and if meter dies so does the charging circuit)
so they put a large shunt across the leads to the meter. This would
work if the shunt has a little resistance in it. Mine was pure copper
wire and the reason the meter did not work is that there was not enough
resistance in the shunt to deflect some current through the meter.

I got a resistance wire from the parts store designed to go between the
ignition switch and the ignition control module and cut off a length to
give me the resistance I needed. I spliced it into the shunt wire and
now the meter works. It goes to about 3/4 range at start and goes to
about 1/4 range during run. If the engine is off and the headlights are
on it indicates discharge. I got a little more resistance in the shunt
than I wanted so the needle is a little more active than it should be
but that's ok with me. If I get around to it I may reduce the shunt
resistance or I may install a fuse to protect the meter from a current
spike. My meter is at full deflection at about 0.9 Amps through the
meter. I'm going to watch the system closely for a while to make sure
the harness is not getting too hot. It doesn't seem to be.

The funny thing is that if you think about it, every 73 to 79 truck has
a brand new ammeter in it because the way it's hooked up IT HAS NEVER
BEEN USED! OH OH OOOOOOOOOOHH!!!! (Sam Kinnesen yell).

Gary, do you have any access to tech bulletins (or engineers) that might
explain why it was built this way? Fire hazard? Wrong part spec' ed in?
Vendor mistake?
+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:07:06 -0400
From: bbprice
Subject: Re: Need some help!

I'm all for it, who do I make my check out to and where do I send it?

Barry Price
1965 F-100 Step Side
1980 F-150 Extended Cab


deconblu wrote:

> Hi Ken!
> I know everything that's going on with the list can't be cheap!
> With the
> split, a possible domain name the window stickers not to mention the
> hours
> of administration you've been doing! Will you let us help!
> List members! This is me asking. Ken has said and will no doubt
> say
> again this list is free! The only association I have with Ken is the
> same
> one all of us have!
> Sometime ago Ken allowed us to donate (we suggested and we voted)
> no one
> was asked to contribute. Ken posted what was donated but never who did
> or
> didn't! A lot did. It was surprising how a buck here and a buck there
> added
> up. Ken gave full disclosure how the money was spent even though no
> one
> asked. I'm just letting new people know this so there is no mass panic
> that
> there will be a charge. I have one vote like everyone else!
> Ken, what you have done with the Homepage and the list I would say
> our
> money was well spent. I would like to ask the list to second this
> proposal
> and post their support and or thoughts! If 10% of this list donates
> $1.00
> that will pay for the split. If 20% donates $1.00 that will pay for
> the
> split and the domain name. If 90% donates $1.00 I know Ken will do
> with it
> for us!
> It's up to us people! Ken let us vote on everything he has done
> for us.
> Lets vote on how we can say Thank you!
>
> I Jim Strigas propose that we set-up a voluntary donation to the Ford
> Truck
> Club! Is there a second?
>
> Ken, can this be forward to the other list (or if the split has taken
> place,
> lists) for their vote?
>
> Deacon Blues



+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:05:22 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: 351M Cam Timing

i am sorry, but you misunderstand. there is a connection between the cam
and the cam gear, let's call it the cam button. this connection is used
when machining the cam to grind the lobes relative to crank position (which
is relative to cam gear position on a factory cam gear and chain.) the
factory basically ground the cam with the whole lobe pattern moved.
there is a possibilty, i am not sure, that they made the cam gear different
instead, which would mean that replacing the timing chain set with
something like a cloyes double roller chain would then, if installed
straight up, put the cam off of the factory position by the amount they
moved it for emissions purposes.
i am not sure which way they did it. to me it doesn't matter because i
will always put in a new cam-lifters-timing chain on a rebuilt engine.
but, aftermarket cams are straight up when installed with a aftermarket
> timing chain with the zero deg. marks lining up. and the cam companies say
to install their cams straight up on factory chains too i think, which
leads me to beleive that the cam has the whole pattern moved relative to
the cam button on the end of the cam that engages the cam gear.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Dave Resch[SMTP:dresch sybase.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 1997 12:48 PM
To: fordtrucks-digest ListService.net
Subject: Re: 351M Cam Timing


>From: Sleddog
>Subject: RE: 351M Cam Timing
>snip
>difference is already ground in. only moving the factory cam makes a
>difference, as ford ground the cams 4 or so degrees off.
Since the cam controls the relative timing of intake and exhaust events
(i.e., valves opening and closing), along with the characteristics of those
events (i.e., duration, lift, overlap, etc.) there is no such thing as
grinding the cam x degrees off. All you have to do is rotate the cam -x
degrees and there is no difference. This procedure is known as "degreeing"
the cam.

The only way you could grind a cam differently would be to change the
relationship between intake and exhaust events (which would drastically
change the engine's operating characteristics), and as far as I know,
that's not how the cam was retarded by the factory. You'd have to retard
intake only or exhaust only, otherwise no retard can be ground in the cam
itself.

>From: DC Beatty
>Subject: RE: 351M Cam Timing
>
>In Pat Ganahl's book Ford Performance, page 84, there is a mention of
> Ford retarding cams: "One of the first things Ford did to meet smog
> >restrictions, beginning in '72, was to retard the timing on existing
>camshafts." It has a picture of a multi-index crank (yes crank) sprocket.=
This is how cams are retarded or advanced, by changing the index between
the cam and the crank.

The original timing set I removed from my 351M had only one keyway on each
gear, so you could install them only according to the original factory
spec, which incorporated the cam retard. The Cloyes timing set I replaced
it with had three keyways on the crank gear, with one indexed to 0 degrees
(cam aligned with TDC on the crank), which is the true lobe profile design
of the cam. From there, you could advance or retard the cam by one keyway
either direction (+ or - 6 degrees?, I don't remember now), depending on
what you wanted the engine to do. At any rate, advancing or retarding the
cam does not change the relative positions of the lobes (i.e., the intake
and exhaust events).

As far as using a cam spec for a pre-'71 engine, that should not make any
difference. Using the factory original timing set for the engine might
make a difference, since that is where the cam retard is done. In the case
of an M-block engine, I would definitely rather have the later, post '77
truck cam with higher lift, if I was going to use a factory spec cam.

Dave R. (M-block devotee)
1980 F250 4x4 351M


+-------------- Ford Truck Enthusiasts - 1979 and Older --------------+
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 17:07:42 -0400
From: Sleddog
Subject: RE: bolt patterns on rear

the bearings are same size on my two housings in fact in the interest of
time i used the outside race that was in the housing and the inner race and
tapered bearing from the junkyard axle that i picked up. the bolt pattern,
however, was different - about 1/2 smaller in both directions for the 4
bolts going into the housing.

sleddog

- ----------
From: Gary, 78 BBB[SMTP:gpeters3 ford.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 1997 10:44 AM
To: fordtrucks ....

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